[Promise and Politics]

[The content of this page is in the state of development]

Below are links to the political discourse on the State of Israel.

Below:   An Alternative Narrative to Classical Dispensational Kingdom Spin-Offs

Deconstruct~Reconstruct Deconstruct~Reconstruct Deconstruct~Reconstruct
Chaim Weizmann and the Balfour Declaration  Pro_Einat Wilf —   The Jewish State — What Do We Mean Pro_Einat Wilf — Thank you Lord Balfour, we will take it from here
Con_Miko Peled — The General’s Son Con_Illan Pappe — Myths On The History of Zionism Gaza – An Open Air Prison
10 Failed Prophecies Christian and Non-Christian Was 1948 the Fulfillment Of Prophecy? What Is Mystery Babylon?
No King But Christ [Pearl Harbor] www.NoKingButChrist.org Pro_Darrell Bock,  McDermott  == New Christian Zionism
Con_Illan Pappe — Settler Colonialismc

THE BELMARSH TRIBUNAL  ~  Justice For The Whistleblower

THE RUSSELL-SATRE TRIBUNAL

John Mearshiemer _ The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

Chuck Baldwin:  The Wars Of The Ashkenazi Jews

A History of Palestine 1900 -1948

Why Does The US Support Israel ???

Geo~Political Economy 

How did Israel become a country?

With God On  Our Side Jewish _Voices_For_Peace
Mystery Babylon _ Roxanne Mystery Babylon _ Roxanne John Mearshiemer  _  Tried To Warn Us,  We Ignored Him
Colonial  Origin Of Israel Zionism: Truman Reveals Intent For Whole Land

Zionism:  Truman Clips On Israel

The Real News Network

Biblical~Covenatal | Biblical~Dispensational | Political~Christian~Non-Christian |ZIONISM

[David Pawson is  Biblical-Covental]

What Is Christian Zionism ?

Stephen Sizer Blog

Methodist Federation for Social Action (MFSA) __ Stephen Sizer

Seven Biblical Answers to Popular Zionist Assumptions

Stephen Sizer  Interviewed by Rod Thompson

 

 

 

The Historical Roots of Christian Zionism, its Theological Basis and Political Agenda __ Stephen Sizer

David Pawson _  Refutes Stephen Sizer and Defends Christian Zionism

David Pawson  _ Biblical Zionism Part_1      Part_2      Part_3

[Focus Part_3 above 00:49:00 + “I lend to this view to a great extent;”  “I Do not lend to the view, ‘godly politicians led to establishment of Jewish state or the colonization of the world.” ’ or ‘our Fathers sets the borders of nations in every instance, i.e. [Acts 17:26] unequivocally any more than Hitler, or Bush, or Trump, or Hussein, were authorities ordained by YOU FATHER,  See Romans 13:1-7,  If we accepted this as being of the Father then overthrowing Hitler or anybody else would be to resist the Father;  next, DP i think believes in 5 Covenants not Dispensations,  and because of 2 Sam, 7:25,29 1 Chron. 17:23,27,  Ezek. 34:23,24; 37:24,25 ‘by Covenant will sit on David’s throne,’  i feel it means JESUS sits on the “confession of David.” see,  1 Chron. 29,23; Rev. 3;21, Matt. 19:28],   Per DP all Christian Zionists including himself be they of the Disspensationalist else Covenantalist type believe in these three things:

  • Unlike Replacementalists YOU has 2 peoples –  Israel and Church
  • Bring “Jews” back to land for a Second time and Final time, never ever to leave.
  • Your returning to earth to reign over nations. 

 

 

Five Covenants

With God On Our Side

David Pawson  _  Resource Blog

David Pawson _ Applying 17:11 _Is He Right?

 

ww.ChristianZionism.org The Jerusalem Fund & Palestine Center [This]
[This] [This] [This]
The Land
Miscellaenous Miscellaenous Miscellaenous
2 Peter 1:4 1 John 3:2 Hebrews 11:9,10
John 14:2,3 1 Chronicles 29:23 2 Corinthians 3:6,9,10

Esther 8:17;    Isaiah 56:3-7;    Leviticus 25:23;   Ezekiel 47:21-23;  Ezekiel 33:24-29

NT per Stephen Sizer consistently LOOKS AWAY from  Earthly Jerusalem Centric to  Heavenly Jerusalem Centric model, a one that is “Free,” and from “Above,” mother of us all.  

Hebrews 12:23-25 suggests “we have already com\e,” to MOUNT ZION, i.e. the Jerusalem of Revelations 21:2

By Today’s Standard of Aliyah into Israel:

Neither Abraham or Moses or Elijah may be allowed to enter Israel as they honored JESUS.  Moses’s children of Zipporah may not be given Aliyah. Further if the notion of Aliyah was prevalent after return from Captivity under Ezra and Nehemiah,   then none of Esther 8:17 would be permitted to do Aliyah.

 

Matthew 25:31 Matthew 21:43 Matthew 8:11,12 Hebrews 11:9-10,16,39-40 [Earthly Jerusalem a temporary staging post, the heavenly Jerusalem being obtained WITH US [NT Saints bring forth that which is perfect]

John 18:33-37         Matthew 28:19,20

“This one and that one were born in her:” 

Isaiah 19:25    Deuteronomy 23:7-8  Psalm 87:4-6             Matthew 1:5 _ Rahab [Canaanite]                Matthew 1:6 _ Ruth [Moabite]                    Numbers 12:1

“This one and that one were born in her:”  Psalm 87:4-6; Isaiah 19:25 Deuteronomy 23:7-8  Matthew 1:5 _ Rahab [Canaanite]          Matthew 1:6 _ Ruth [Moabite]              Numbers 12:1.  Neither Boaz who was born to Rahab the harlot from Canaan nor David’s father Jesse who was born to the Moabite Ruth would be permitted to do Aliyah today.  Further if for some reason JESUS desired to make a return to Israel, left to the current standards for return Aliyah our Lord Himself would be left out. 

Revelations 21,22 Abrahamic Covenant — “Hovering Jerusalem”

Luke 21:24 – “and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”    Some say this was fulfilled between A.D. 70 and A.D. 1967.    But Revelations 11.2 says that in the future  “the Holy City will be given to the Gentiles for 42 months.”

Jerusalem in OT is described as a “Shared City.”  Psalm 87:4-6; Isaiah 2:2-3;  Mark 17:11;   cf; Zechariah 14:21

According to Halacha, only someone with a Jewish mother is considered Jewish.  This however is not Jewish law today.  Anyone with Jewish Parents are permitted to make Aliyah

SS i think believes there is a spiritual Israel which is the Church [Rom. 2:25-29; Rom. 4:1-end, 16, Gal. 3:28-29], and an Ethnic Natural Israel as in Romans 11, and post-exilic Zech. 12-14.  However I think SS looks away from the Earthly Millennial to the Hebrews 11:9-10,16,39-40 Jerusalem.  I tend to see, a millennial but one in which all saved both old and new as One New Man  Eph. 2:14-18 serve with YOU without OT type of Nation-NationS, Jew-Gentile distinction as SS points to in Psalm 87:4-6;  DP i feel may be putting “words into SS’s mouth,” if he is suggesting that SS is a full blown replacementalist.  

DW says for about 200  before DZs there were  CZs “‘who believed Jews would return to Israel.”’’  I believe they believed “YOU FATHER,” would bring them back.   And I am contending if it were really YOU who were bringing them back the story would not be this protracted and unresolved.

DW in Part 3 says both Dispensational and Covenantal Zionists believe in common:

__God has 2 people in the world – Israel and the Church  [However to be accurate I would say there You have 3 peoples of interest,  i.e. the Church, Israel, and Gentiles [Ethnes].

__God will bring Jews back for a 2nd time and a final time, never to leave again.

__You are returning to earth
“premillennial,” to reign over the nations [Zech. 14:1-end, 19]

 

 

DW in Part 3 states profound differences between Dispensational and Covenantal Zionists 

 __ DZ  “come anytime.”  CZ’s “ 2,5 of 4 signs  fulfilled.” 

__ DZ “Pretrib.”  CZ “Posttrib.”

__DZ “Comfort, my people.”  CZ “evangelize the Jews.”

__DZ  “Uncritical,”  CZ “May Criticize”

__DZ  “Separate Flocks”  CZ “One Shepherd One  Flock”

__DZ “Jewish Character of Millennium, with restored temple, priesthood, sacrifices,   CZ of which DWis one believe it will be a Christian Millennium.”  However CZ is challenged by Zech. 14:14,18 “to keep feast of tabernacles.”   Also, you have to allegorize and metaphorize [qd.cque.cpi]  Zech. 14:15….

 

Note:  DP looks at Genesis 12:3 and “applies the curse to Abraham AND HIS DESCENDENTS.”   SS argues “12:3” is to Abraham and not descendents per literal hermeneutics.  Further I am confident that there are ad infinitum curses pronounced and wars of hate fought within the descendents themselves, i.e. the 11 brothers of Joseph “curse” him;” the children of Israel, “cursed” Moses and You are LORD , and all the prophets who are descendents of Abraham.  And today they discredit one another internally!!… …  Rhetorical question, are they also “cursed,” who “curse,” their own fellow Abrahamic descendents?   Also, JESUS curses the fig tree for not bearing fruit….. Blessings and “curses,” are pronounced by YOU YOURSELF against the descendents of Abraham,  when they did not walk in YOUR way.   
Doctrine Of Discovery Manifest Destiny Explained The Monroe Doctrine
Christian Zionism and White Supremacy

Promise And Politics

This page focuses on the  discourse between “the promise” and the “politics” of our day as it has played itself out in the context of Darbyian and Scofield like Classic Dispensationalism.    Not only have many voices spoken on the subject, but rather many religious movements, even cults, predictions etc.  have flooded the market place,  each selling their owon brand asto when our LORD will return to Israel, and establish his Revelations 20:1-7 Millenial reign.   Sufficeth to say every single prophecy as to when our Lord would return as predicted and not realized to date has been a false prophecy.    The best of the best got it wrong.  The Millerites predicted our Lord would return in 1843.  Peole sold everything so as to  lay aside “every weight,” that would impede their own   “the rapture.”  And when it did not happen William Miller went back to his drawing board, took a second look,  then said he  “mis-calculated” and added an additional year.   Jesus would return in 1844.   That did not happen resulting in what was termed “The Great Disappointment.”The story of the “The Great Disappointment” has at long history and goes back to the early church.  It is this  bloggers view that even Peter and Paul and John of Pathmos perceived the timing of our Lord’s return in error.   But there was always a fallback that became the pancea when “it did not happen.”  It could be found in 2 Peter 3: 8,9:[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.To this blogger,  “The Great Disappointment,”  has persisted within Christendom,  yes, for 2000 years.  Charts and models flurished,  who the 144,000 would be were constantly refined– the Millerites thinking “they were it.” the 7th Day Adventists thinking “they were it,”  the Jehovah’s Witnesses thinking “they were it.”   The “great prophetess” Ellen White predicted 1845,   then revised it to  September of 1846.   Many Septembers passed and the LORD has not yet returned.   The standard answer given being “His grace and long suffering” withholding judgement.     But  the great disappointment persisted.   And when “The Watch Tower” [Jehovah’s Witnesses] came along  they predicted our Lord’s return as 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918 and 1925.   One hitherto “final” expectation of the JWs was 1975.  And when this did not happen the leadershiop made an apology to the society.  It appears to its credit the JWs, have called out a moratorium on predicting our LORD’s return.    1975 is significant, to recent times.   Hal Lindsey,  author of the 30 million best seller Late Great Planet Earth was heard to have said,  he could not tell definitively when our Lord would return but could not see that His return would be held back beyond 1975.  In more recent years the lated Harold Camping of Family Radio predicted “the parousia,” would take place on May 21,  2011,  after having first predicted His coming to be in 1994.   He called it “the invisible judgement day.”  One blogger writes with respect to Mr. Campings  prophecy, “Believers had spent months warning the world of the pending cataclysm. Some had given away earthly belongings. … And there were those who drained their savings accounts.The beat goes on.The first zionist congress was assembled by Theodore Hertzel in 1897.   The buzz:“A land without a people for a people without a land”Chaim Weizmann succeded in persuading Lord Balfour into persuading her majesty the queen into framing the Balfour Declaration around 1914 in exchange for a promise made by Weizmann that the Zionists could rally the Jewish Lobby in the USA to support the British in the WW1 war effort, when things were not going altogether well for the Allied Forces.   The Balfour declaration was signed in 1917, the very same year the USA joined the allied forces towards the tail end of the war [ WWI  – July 28, 1914 – November 11, 1918]A tangential question that may be asked about Claim Weizmann, who eventually became the first president of the modern state of Israel,  as can be asked of Theodore Herzel, and other leaders like Lois Brandais, David Bengurian, Manachem Began etc.   were these God’s chosen leaders to bring the diaspora into the promised land.  Were these Cyrus, or Darius or Artarxerxes who the Bible clearly portrays as God’s instruments to return Benjamin and Judah from Babylon to “the promised land.”A question that can and should be asked, since the sigining of the Balfour declaration and the gradual return of the Jews since,  through the declaration of the State of Israel why has it taken almost a hundred years for Israel to accept Messiah – the Lord Jesus Christ.?   Just like “a day with the Lord is like a thousand years”   has been a persistant answer to failed prophecy with respect to the Second Coming of our Lord,  an explanation has been given for via Israel has not turned its heart to the LORD inspite of being in the promised land for approximately 100 years.The explanation often given is that the restoration is in process.  Ezekiel 37:1-14 — the Valley of Dry Bones is in process.    If a generation is biblically 40 years,  almost two generations have passed since supposedly the God engineered the return of the Jews into the promised land and yet 97% of them have not turned to him.In 1948  the second world war was won by the allied forces.   The UN proposed a two state solution.   Israel more or less unilaterally declares itself a state in 1948.  It is said that president Truman ratified the declaration within 11 minutes.   The all white jury agreed.   The Palestanians never saw statehood till today.   Hamas was to blamed.This blogger came to the knowledge of Jesus as Saviour of the world in 1970,  about 20 years after the declaration of the state of Israel in 1948.   Since then has heard several  year-dates as to our Lord returns.    Before 1988 based on  Matthew 24:34: “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”   Thus it was believed by some that our LORD’s return would be before 1983 and predictions to the effect were made.   Hal Lindsey said before 1975.   And when 1988, did not pan out the prophets went back to their prophetic charts and moved the goal post.   “This generation” was now to mean the generation who were born 1967 after the six day war when the State of Israel gained full control over the city of Jerusalem.    Add a generation to 1967-was  the Lord’s return was to be expected before 2007?   Then I would here things like the countdown t hat would tie in “this generation” begins only when the Alasque mosque is destroyed and the temple is built.   The beat goes on, and on, and on.Classical Dispensational has left a Christian Zionized church,  the Hebrew Roots Movement,  The Messianic Movement,   the New Apostolic Reformation super apostles and super prophets embroiled in the discourse.  Bob Jones,  prophesied  “this.”    John Hagee prophesied  “that”  and yet another SomeOneElse  said prophesied  “that.” and “that” and “that.” The beat goes on.This blogger asks the question was Theodore Herzel   King Cyrus?   Was Chaim Weizmann a type of Darius, were Louis Brandais,  David Bengurian, Manachem Begaen a type of Artarzerxes.   The biblical figures of Cyrus, Darius, and Artxerxes were biblical figures who per Chronicles,  Daniel,  Ezra, and Nehemiah were directed by God.   The Zionists mentioned here did not even run their campaign based on the belief that Jews  were “God’s Chosen People.”   Rather the records indicate that they ran their campaign on the principles of “Nation State”  and peoples identity to a land.   These were culturally Jewish,  whose relationship to Jehovah has not been established in the least.Per this blogger the Zionist movement is a secular movement.   To Classic Dispensationalism’s credit it can be said that it accurately predicted the return of the Jews to Palestine.   In the light of the fact that Israel is  ninety seven percent of its people have not yet returned to Jehovah after 100 years of their presence in the land,  I am lead to ask the question was their return to land the result of God’s Permissive Will or was it by an act of His Directive Will.The middle east has been the subject to tragedy.  The Anglophile states of the world say the fault lies with the Arabs.  So do Christian Zionists.   I am inclined to think,  a lot of it is perpetuated by a classical dispensationalism mindset in anticipation of the Kingdom Millenial Reign mindset in which Israel is the Kingdom.In sum this blogger believes that the creation and of the modern state of Israel,   is a product of God’s Permissive Will,   not God’s Directive Will.    The Land is reserved for a Holy people of God.   Israel has not met that threshold of holiness for a hundre years.Below are links to the political discourse on the State of Israel.